S01 - E15 - The History of Oasis with Jack Perrett

Hey, in today's episode Rich speaks with indie rock and roll star Jack Perrett about one of his main influences --- Oasis. We cover the history of the band and also cover some key music idioms. Oasis were an English rock band formed in Manchester in 1991. Developed from an earlier group, the Rain, the band originally consisted of Liam Gallagher, Paul Arthurs, Paul McGuigan, and Tony McCarroll.

S01 - E15 - The History of Oasis with Jack Perrett

Full intermediate level ESL podcast transcript

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Rich: Hey, Jack. 

Jack: Hello Richard. 

Rich:Welcome back to the podcast. 

Jack: Thanks for having me on. 

Rich: Cheers. So we're going to start today just by defining the word Oasis. So, what is an Oasis? 

Jack: Uh, I think an Oasis is a...if you're in a desert and there's a large hole and it's got water in it, am I right?

Rich: Yeah. So, an Oasis is a place in a desert, in an environment where everything's sand...

Jack: Okay... 

Rich: ...And you've got a small place, generally small. Um...where there is water, where there are plants, food. So it's...it's a bit of life in a place where there is no other life...

Jack: Right okay,

Rich:...basically. 

Jack: Right. 

Rich: Um, so yeah, that's what the band name means. That's what Oasis... means. I think it's actually quite a powerful name when you think about that in the context of the band. 

Jack: Yeah. Well, I think the band actually got the name. I think they just got off a poster. I think the...the Oasis was a leisure center in Swindon...

Rich:  Ah okay…

Jack: ...in the United Kingdom, so I think they just took it from that. But there's a lot, I think the word Oasis, gets used quite a lot in the UK. This is a drink in the UK called Oasis isn't there.

Rich: Yeah...there's a fruit drink. There's a lot of...there's a few taxi companies called Oasis.

Jack: I think there’s a..

Rich: ...kebab shops…

Jack: and so I think there's a clothing shop called Oasis as well. I might be wrong.

Rich: Yeah.. I think there is, it's a popular branding...

Jack: Yeah... 

Rich: ...Name, I think in general. But yeah, the name for the band...I guess comes from...from that. It has quite a nice...a nice image. Um, we're going to talk a bit about the band's background. Um, we'll start with Liam and Noel’s background. So, they were born in Manchester, right? 

Jack: Yeah...born in Manchester in a place called Burnich, I believe. Um, but I think they've got...I think their mom and their dad were from Ireland...think they were from Ireland. So, um...But they, yeah, I think they were really influenced by the music coming out of Manchester especially Noel. 

Rich:  Yeah. 

Jack: I think Liam, so got into the music later on. 

Rich: And those would be bands like Stone Roses…

Jack:….Stone roses, Happy Mondays, the Smiths…

Rich: Yeah...

Jack: the Buzz Cox as well from Manchester. So, there's quite a lot of bands. 

Rich: Yeah. Manchester has a very...um...Manchester sound as well. 

Jack: Yeah… 

Rich: Sounds very unique. It's very unlike any other city for music.

Jack: Yeah...I think so. It's where they've got sort of that rivalry as well...not just in sport...with Liverpool and Manchester ??? for music as well.

Rich: Rivalry is when two sides or two teams have a competition…

Jack: Yeah…they are sort of competing against each other. Yeah. 

Rich: Yeah... for the same. Yeah. At the same prize. So, in football might be Manchester City, Manchester United or Liverpool. 

Jack: Yeah. 

Rich: Um, but yeah, they had a lot of...rivalry...competition between the bands in Manchester at the time as well. Um, what was it like for them growing up in Manchester because Manchester back then was not the nicest of cities, right?

Jack: No, I think it’s...I think it's still pretty gray there now. I think it rains a lot in Manchester. 

Rich: Yeah..

Jack: Yeah, it does, apparently. So. Um, but I think they had quite...just a very working class upbringing. Um, I think they left….they left their dad because he was quite abusive to them when they were children and quite abusive to their mother as well. So, I think they moved...they stayed in Manchester but moved house. 

Rich: Yeah 

Jack: Um, and then I think when they were about 16...17, and then started to get really interested in the music. 

Rich: Yeah. And they obviously had a lot of self-belief. Um, Liam actually I think was in a band first...right?

Jack: So, the original name of Oasis was called The Rain.

Rich: Yeah. Which is good for Manchester because it rains a lot. Um...and then Noel joined later, he was actually working as a guitar technician or sound technician 

Jack: Yeah... for a band called the Inspiral Carpets, who were also from Manchester. 

Rich: Yeah. And then, so, and then he joined The Rain, which was the original band. Um...under one condition, and that was that he would control everything. (Laughs)

Jack: Yeah, apparently so I think so. I think that was the myth at the start, that he used the in control and he was the boss and all, but I think later on, I think in the earlier days, I think it was sort of...quite mutual. But I think then as time has gone on…

Rich: Yeah..

Jack: I think he is more of a...more of a dictator now. I don't know.

Rich: A dictator. So, a dictator is like a...a person with ultimate power, right? 

Jack: Yeah…

Rich: No one gets to..

Jack: Yeah. It seems quite a strong word, because it makes him sound evil. 

Rich: Yeah like...Hitler was a dictator..

Jack:...but no Gallagher is not Hitler. 

Rich: No..

Jack: But he was so, yeah, he was the person who sort of in charge...any questions would get diverted to Noel.

Rich: In charge, meaning in control 

Jack: In control… 

Rich: Meaning… He was the boss. The leader. 

Jack: Yeah. 

Rich: Um, yeah. So, Noel joined...um...obviously they changed the name to Oasis. I think they spent about a year of intense rehearsals...uh...on intense rehearsals. Getting practice in Manchester before they started playing shows and getting some success. So, they were one of a number of bands at the time who were part of what they called Britpop. 

Jack: Yeah..

Rich: It was like a genre..

Jack: ...as they got bigger. Yeah. 

Rich: So, there were other bands called... one called Blur...another called Suede. Who were also very popular in this kind of nineties British music scene. Um...although I think those bands are all quite different from each other. Maybe they just have the time they were around in common.

Jack: Yeah...I think the media obviously played up to that...so Oasis being a working class band from Manchester. And, then you have blur...a sort of middle-class from London or Essex. 

Rich: Yeah..So, there was a big rivalry there. A real competition actually between blur and Oasis and uh yeah...They said some not very nice things about each other at different points in the media.

Jack: I think they have made up now…

Rich: Yeah. Now they're friendly. I think they have moved on since then...uh...but at the time it was something journalists like to write about a lot. I guess it was kind of fun. 

Jack: Yeah. 

Rich: To have that in music as well, like people choosing sides. It was a bit the same when you had the Beatles and the Rolling Stones.

Jack: Yeah…

Rich: The Beatles were more Pop. 

Jack: Yeah. 

Rich: Um, at the time the Beatles were kind of producing music that your mum would like...The Rolling Stones were a bit more rebellious…

Jack: Full of lads...

Rich: ...a bit more adventurous. Lads meaning guys, right? 

Jack: Yes...Yeah. 

Rich: Um, okay. So Noel joins, eventually after some practice, they released ‘Definitely Maybe’. Um, Definitely Maybe it was an instant hit...hit again, meaning like a popular song. 

Jack: It was, I think it was the best selling debut album of all time in the UK. 

Rich: Yeah. Which I mean, considering how many great artists the UK has produced...that's actually quite an achievement to produce that...to get those album...that number of album sales on a first album is really....quite amazing. So, do you remember some of the tracks on this? 

Jack: Yeah...So ‘Definitely Maybe’ so...probably the more well known tracks are probably like ‘Live Forever’ which is probably the most well known one off that album, I would say. Which...um...I believe Noel wrote that song when he was working on a building site and he apparently...I’d seen an interview...he said...he actually broke his leg or broke his foot so he couldn’t use it, in sort of light duties and work. So, he had this guitar with him and he sort of wrote that song there apparently so..

Rich: Light duties, meaning like work...making tea..coffee.

Jack: So he's basically in work but he is not doing the full. He's not putting the full shift in, so to speak. 

Rich: Yeah...Full shift being the period that you're in work for...So, you might have a nine to five shift, for example. 

Jack: Yeah. 

Rich: Um, yeah. And I've also heard that that song was written kind of in answer to a lot of the American music at the time. Um, so of course in the 90s you had bands like Nirvana, although maybe that would have been before Nirvana when he wrote that up. Probably. 

Jack: Yeah. Maybe. Yes.

Rich: Maybe around the same time, but yeah. Um, a lot of those bands were not...I don't want to say negative, but dark, a lot more dark. Um, and they had, there was an attraction to death in the music...uh...they talked about wanting to die and other things. 

Jack: Yeah. 

Rich: And he thought, no, I want to live forever and go the opposite direction.

Jack: Yeah, I've got that...I’ve seen that. Yeah. That's resetting an interview. 

Rich: Yeah...Although the song lyrics don't make a lot of sense other than that one..

Jack: No, they don't. But I suppose the meaning in the last two lines of the song...you know. We'll see things...they'll never see you and I are going to live forever. I suppose that carries…

Rich: That carries the message. I think that's an interesting thing with lyrics in general is that they're….they're very open, right? 

Jack: Yeah 

Rich: It's...it's art. The meaning is not obvious. 

Jack: Yeah, in that song my favorite. My favorite lines were always “Maybe I will never be. 

What’s it..? (Sings) 

Rich: Yeah…

Jack: Now is not the time to cry. Now's the time to find out why. Do you know what I mean? So, that's to me, I sort of perceive that as saying...I need to work hard. I need to find out why...why I'm not going to become what I want to become, and then I'm gonna need to do something about it. I need to work hard to make sure I do. 

Rich: That’s what you get from…

Jack: That's what I take out of those lyrics. Yeah. 

Rich: Yeah. Um...but that's the great thing about songs is it can mean so many different things to different people. And I think Oasis’s songs definitely do that.

Rich: Okay. So, I think we should go to the next album, which was…’What's the story morning glory’. Now, this was a huge success internationally. 

Jack: Yeah. 

Rich: It took them to the Americans. 

Jack: Yeah. Um, I think like there..like you said...Definitely Maybe was sort of, it was the biggest debut selling album in the UK with them, but then morning glory when that was reached.

That sort of opened their horizons to the...the entire world really...like you said...bigger in America, bigger in South America as well. 

Rich: Yeah, huge. They actually have a big following in Brazil. 

Jack: Yeah.  Argentina, I believe. 

Rich: Argentina I believe as well. Yeah. So, unusual for a British band in modern times to get that big everywhere. Um...However, it was during this period that they started fighting a lot. Both Liam and Noel. 

Jack: Yeah apparently so. 

Rich: So, yeah...there was a lot of a talk in the media and in the press about their fighting. Um, although we won't talk too much about that, cause you know, we like Oasis. 

Jack: Yeah…

Rich: So, um…’What's the story of morning glory’ had a number of great songs on there. What was your favorite from that album? 

Jack: Uh...it can change on a daily basis, but it's a...my favorite song on that album is probably...uh... Champagne Supernova, I would say. 

Rich: Champagne Supernova. Okay. So, just to go back there...So, daily basis means every day. 

Jack: Yeah. 

Rich: So, if something happens on a daily basis... 

Jack: Yeah. 

Rich: it...happens every day. Um, so Champagne Supernova...probably should explain that song title. So, do you know what a champagne supernova is? 

Jack: I don't, I know what champagne is. Champagne is...a is a drink… an alcoholic drink that you might have if you’re celebrating. So, for example...a birthday or a wedding. People like to drink champagne on Christmas time. A supernova is something to do...is to do with astronomy, if I believe. 

Rich: Yeah. So, it's to do with stars. So, it's when a star explodes I think, basically. Um, so it's, yeah, when the star explodes, um. 

Jack: So I assume you should just put those two words...together

Rich: Just put them two together. Yeah. So I think it's just the color of a star exploding.

Jack: Yeah...perhaps he was drinking too much champagne when he wrote that. 

Rich: Yeah. I think it's a Champagne Supernova would be a good name for a cocktail. 

Jack: Yeah

Rich: I think

Jack: Yeah, actually. Um, okay. So, then they had a number of other albums after that. Um….they kept going for quite a while. 

Jack: Yeah 

Rich: Should we cover some of the other albums? Maybe we can just pick one of your favorites. 

Jack: Yes so..Um. But I think ‘Be here now’ was the next one after the Morning Glory,

Rich:  Yeah you’re right. 

Jack: I think it was released in like 1997 or 98. Um, and that was again, that was a massive success. Both, I think it was a big success because of the success of the previous two albums. 

Rich:  Yeah.

Rich and Jack: Talking over one another. 

Jack: It was a brilliant album. I liked the album, but I think it divided a lot of people. 

Rich: For me, the songs on the album are good, but they're much better live because on the album, they're very long. 

Jack: They are long, yeah. 

Rich: So, I think…

Jack: Very trebly as well. Not much bass in there. 

Rich: Yeah…

Jack: Any other bass at all. 

Rich: Yeah, I did find that a bit. Um, I do like the live versions of the album. There was another album at that time as well, which is full of B-sides. So, I should explain what a B-side is, when you used to buy records, you used to have two sides to the disc. 

Jack: Yeah. 

Rich: Um, so you'd have an A-side with the single, with the main song and a B side, which was like just a random song.

Jack: Yeah. 

Rich: Um, but they actually released this album, ‘The Master Plan’ which was full of B-sides. 

Jack: Yeah 

Rich: But it's an incredible album. 

Jack: Yeah, it's better than, in my opinion, better than ‘Be here now’. 

Rich: Oh yeah. For sure. If you haven't listened to the...to ‘The Master Plan’ by Oasis. Please give it a listen cause there's so many great songs on there and it's amazing that the songs that they didn't use...

Jack: Yeah.

Rich: ...were better than most bands’ actual songs.

Jack: That should have been the third album, I think. 

Rich: Yeah. 

Jack: Instead of ‘ Be here now’. 

Rich: I think so too. Um, so they moved on to a number of other...um...albums. One of the original members, Bone Head (laughs)...

Jack: Yeah 

Rich: ...left at that point. They got some other guitarists in.

Jack: I think Gigzy the bassist left as well at the same time..

Rich: Yeah, he left around that period too. Um. So, they had a number of albums after that, so they released ‘Familiar to millions’.

Jack: Which was a live album at the Old Wembley stadium in London. 

Rich: Yeah. 

Jack: And then they released ‘Heathen chemistry’ in about 2002 I think, which featured songs like, ‘Stop crying your heart out’ and ‘Little by little’.

Rich: It was actually the first time Liam featured on an Oasis album.

Jack: Songbird was as well. Oh, no, actually I think he released ‘Little James’ on there. 

Rich: Ahh no he did..yeah.

Jack: ....Show us the giants, which wasn't great to be fair. 

Rich: All right. Yeah, I forgot that album.

Jack: Yeah 

Rich: Yeah, so Songbird maybe some, maybe songbird was his first single then.

Jack: Yeah, I think it was, yeah, it was a single I’m pretty sure. 

Rich: So, ‘Little James’ was a piano track if I remember. 

Jack: Yeah. I think there was a piano on it. It wasn't a single. 

Rich: Wasn’t a single. So, that was his first, um, single. Um, so maybe we can talk a little bit about..uh...the end of the band. Do you know when they broke up? 

Jack: Uh, 2009, I think it was 2009. 

Rich: 2009...Um, so neither one of the main two members, Liam Gallagher or Noel Gallagher, have been very quiet. They've still, they’ve both had now successful solo careers, meaning careers by themselves. Uh, Liam started his own band, BDI, but he actually stopped doing that band and now he's a solo artist just as Liam Gallagher. 

Jack: Yeah. 

Rich: Um, last year I think he had, did he have a number one? 

Jack: He's had two number one albums. Yeah. 

Rich: Two number ones... Um, how's Noel doing? 

Jack: Uh, he's had number one...I think all of his albums have gone to number 1, and I might be wrong there, but he's doing well as well. Both doing very well for themselves. 

Rich: Yeah. Noel was playing with a band though, isn't he? Pipes? 

Jack: So Noel Gallagher's high flying birds. Yeah. 

Rich: Yeah. And Liam's just by himself. Um, okay. So I'm going to push you for an answer here to finish today. Um, so I'm just wondering, who do you think is better? Liam or Noel? 

Jack: It depends at (doing) what…? At singing...at as, as a performer, as a live performer. I would say Liam. 

Rich: Yeah. 

Jack: Obviously, it's obvious, really as a songwriter Noel. 

Rich: Yeah, but I think. If you ask me who I’d rather go and watch live now is probably Noel, to be honest. 

Rich: Noel..? 

Jack: Yeah. I think it’s just his voice. Whereas, I think Liam's voice has deteriorated over the years. Noel’s has got a lot better. 

Rich: What do you mean by deteriorates...how do you say that word…

Jack: ...deteriorate? So, it’s got a lot worse, it's got worse.

Rich: It's got worse.

Jack: Yeah. 

Rich: Perfect. Um, all right, so thanks so much for doing this again and I hope to see you soon, Jack. Cheers. 

Jack: Cheers, thank you, Richard.

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