S01 - E09- Competitive gaming with cerealgaming.com - Dan
In today's episode, I speak to Dan who is the founder of the popular competitive gaming website and app cerealgaming.com. He is a young entrepreneur seeking to revolutionize the way people game online.
https://cerealgaming.com/
www.instagram.com/CerealGaming
www.cerealgaming.com
www.facebook.com/groups/Britishghostgaming
S01 - E09- Competitive gaming with cerealgaming.com - Dan
Full Intermediate level ESL Podcast transcript
Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/lovetolearnenglish)
Richard: Hey, Dan, how are you?
Dan: I’m good thanks. How are you?
Richard: Very good too... Welcome to the podcast. You've brought a friend today.
Dan: Yeah…. Best friend.
Richard: ….man's best friends, as they say. (Both laugh)...so man's best friend is an expression that means a dog, basically. So, dogs are considered to be such good friends with humans that we call them a man's best friend in English. So, as I mentioned in the intro, Dan owns a competitive gaming company, and we're going to talk a bit about that today. So Dan, how did you first..start. And what is your company? What do you guys do?
Dan: So the company's called Cereal Gaming. It's basically just a tournament's website where you can...enter tournaments, squad up with other players...compete for prizes.
Richard Wait, what do you mean squad up? Sorry.
Dan: Squad up as in, it's kind of like a problem a lot of gamers have is if their friends don't play that particular game or if they're not part of a particular clan, they struggle actually joining the community and joining the clan. And by clan I mean like...
Richard .. team..?
Dan ...like a team. Yeah.
Richard: So, clan is team...and to squad up is to join a team..
Dan: ….to join one yeah. So it's not just like joining.. like a four player team or something. Like if you join a clan, it's like joining some... Well, sometimes you have clans that have hundreds of players deep.
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: So that's part of it, as well as like a social place. Also, for people to not only compete in my tournament and my challenges, but also just to find players to team up with that are like minded.
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: ...that are playing the same games as them... because it's a problem I find as well when I used to, well, I don't really game much anymore but... (dog barks)
Richard:...that's the dog.
Richard and Dan: (Laugh)
Dan: Hey, what are you doing? (to the dog)
Dan: Um, yeah. It's not something I set out to do, but I just found people would be entering my tournaments and then they’d be posting to find other players to play against anyway.
Dan: (speaking to the dog)
Richard: Yeah, yeah. Just a wait one second. (We are) getting the dog to relax.
Dan: She's fine.
Richard: All right… (Dan inaudible and dog shaking)..Okay. Um,
Dan: Dog is loose..
NOTE - If an animal is “loose” it means that they have escaped from humans or from their cage. For example, the tiger has escaped and is loose in the city.
Richard: ..sorry. So you were saying..
Dan: Yeah...um, what's the first question? How did I get into it?
Richard: Yeah...so how did you start the company and what do you do?
Dan: So I started, because I used to be on the other end of it, I used to play a lot of FIFA. And there was no real... there was no real community (that) I was part of. So.. I went looking for that community and then found that you could actually earn prizes and play for prize money on certain American based websites.
Richard: Yeah..
Dan: ...so that's how I got the idea from it. I was using a variety of those websites and then one day I just thought I could actually make my own website that's very user friendly and that’s very accessible for everyone, not just higher level players. And then that's when I started Cereal Gaming. So it's just over two years ago now. So...
Richard: ...so what, what's the site address? Sorry..
Dan: cerealgaming.com..
Richard: cereal gaming's about ???
Dan: Okay. So at the moment. We've got a iOS app, an iPhone app that, uh, iPhone users can use. But then for the past six to eight months, we've actually been building a brand new website, which is really what the idea and the vision was like two and a half years ago.
Richard: Yeah..
Dan: So it was taken until this long to really get the personnel and the resources to actually build this website.
Richard: Sorry. What do you mean by personnel?
Dan: Personnel as in, uh, well, personnel as in in the people I'm working with..
Richard: Yeah.. the right people.
Dan and Richard: Yeah.
Richard: Personnel. Right people. Okay.
Dan: Because when I started, I had to hire app developers, so an app developing company to build my app, to host the tournament's and to host other people's, um, challenges and things like that. And then once I launched the app, I quickly realized that I'd need to launch either the Android app or really hurry up the website and get that going. So... then that's when I actively found two developers to join the company rather than just hire them….on like a one time use basis. So.. I met these two developers called Cauli and Andrew. One's based in Hungary and one is based just outside Moscow.
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: So they're already friends. So...I first got a message from Cuali, um, because I was admin of a FIFA Facebook group and he actually wanted to build a different style of website and contacted me first...to actually see if he could advertise in my Facebook group.
Richard: Yeah..
Dan: So then I told him no, because it was, it wasn't like a FIFA related website. It was more gaming in general. Um, and then, yeah, we got talking and then after a couple of weeks of back and forth, he actually joined the team then to actually build the new cereal gaming website with me. And then he hired his friend Andrew for.. (laughs) the harder parts..
Richard: ...the harder parts. He's a more skilled programmer or..?
Dan: It's just the difference between back end and front end developing.
Richard: Yeah
Dan: So the back end is more like the actual mechanics of the website and the front end is more..linking...the mechanics to what you see on screen.
Richard Yeah. So those are two interesting terms actually for...developing, so you have the back end and front end..right? So the back end, just to confirm is the..the mechanics..
Dan: Yeah..
Richard: ...the coding and that type of thing and the front end is what you see visually as a customer..
Dan: Yeah, pretty simply yeah. But then also the front end includes (things).. like payment systems and things like that, so yeah. It's not just what you see, but it's, yeah..the back ends. There’s a lot more.. yeah the technical side of it, I'd say.
Richard: Yeah. Stuff the customer does not see.
Dan: Yeah.
Richard: Right. Yeah.
Dan: Pretty much, yeah.
Richard: Okay, cool. Um, what was the most difficult obstacle that you faced or had as you were developing, uh, this site...just so I can explain quickly. So, obstacle means problem, so yeah. So, what was the biggest obstacle or problem that you had (when) developing it? So, obstacle means something that gets in the way, something that stops you doing what you want to do.
Dan: So I think...I think this would be for a lot of businesses getting started is the running costs and the expenditure to actually build what you want. So, because...because when I started, I initially...over three years ago, wanted to do a website first rather than go with the apps first. But when I started getting quotes for the website to actually hire people, they were quoting me between 60 and 80,000 pounds because of how technical the website would be.
Richard: Yeah...
Dan: It wouldn't, you know, it's not just images. It's not just like information pages.. It actually has to be a running... a running website with actual integration and it's quite technical. So...actually, again the funding to get that started was very difficult. And getting the early users onboard to actually kind of go with... not replace, well, it's like two points to look about either...The players are teams I signed up….either they've never played in a tournament before or they currently play on tournament websites.
TIP - Running in this sentence means working or functioning. For example, my computer is running slow today.
Richard: Yeah
Dan: So you're being compared either to multimillion pound tournament websites that have had like 50 million put into them to build them..
Richard: Sure
Dan: Or...your coming in fresh that they've never been on a tournament website before.
Richard: Yeah..
Dan: So then they, they've kind of got no expectations for it, but then also at the same time, huge expectations...because of that. So, it's kind of like two angles that came into it. So yeah..the...I wouldn't say there was one specific, uh, biggest like problem or obstacle..to have when starting. There's just many things, including having the platform to compare with companies who have had like huge, multi..multimillion pounds (of) investments put behind it to build it.
Richard: Yeah..
Dan: ...as well as like marketing campaigns and things like that. And then also just the know how as well and having...you know..the huge teams put around you because only over the past year or so have I actually started to solidify my team. So, the development team..also the customer service team..the support side of it team. It's been difficult actually getting those people confirmed. When again, there's not a lot of funds to give them early on. It's still given them more like an idea of the vision and the project.
Richard: Yeah, so funds is money, right?
Dan: Yeah.
Richard: Yeah. Okay.
Dan: Yeah. So whereas like one of these..I won’t say any names because they are my competitors.
Richard: Yeah..(laughs)
Dan: The huge tournament websites that are existing out there, mainly American based ones. Like all of their staff, they have and like, you know, at least 30,000 plus salary. That's like minimum wage..
Richard: 30 thousand pounds a year…?
Richard: ...or dollars. Whatever, the minimum wage should be in America. And they've got huge teams.
Richard: Yeah
Dan: ...whereas with us. Like we're such a small team. Like we're, we're playing catch up then and we're also trying to take over them, which is very difficult.
Richard: What do you mean by playing catch up?
Dan: Uh, well just cause some of these, some of these existing tournament websites. They've been going since like the late two thousands….
Richard: Yeah..
Dan:...so one of them was 2006 so it’s been along
Richard:So you're behind, and you're trying to catch up or get to their level...Right?
Dan: ….get to their level. Yeah. But then also because we've got a difference, a different kind of thinking about it. We're kind of, we're trying to get as big as them. Where like brands wise, but then also not just be directly compared to them.
Richard: Yeah. You need to be a bit different as well.
Dan: Yeah.
Richard: ….to do that.
Dan: Because like the whole vision with cereal gaming was... with not just like specific set games like Call of Duty..FIFA...Even though we do offer those games, like big tournaments for those games.
Richard: Sure.
Dan: We wanted to do it more where it's kind of all. All games..like any game you play, so there's not specifically your stereotypical gamer. So it's, you know, some...like late teenager playing FIFA in his room. Like we've also got games for like clash of clans, for example.
Richard: Yeah..
Dan: So like all the people who are just on their mobile phone can play. So it's not specifically…
Richard: The dog..(has) just gone
Dan: Going for a wander..
Richard: ….going for a wander. That means go going for a walk. Right?
Dan: Yeah.
Richard: a wander...a walk
Dan: ...trying to sniff something out. So yeah, it's not specifically just like traditional, you know, sat down at the console games. We do ball games and things like that as well. So we're trying to appeal to like a huge, well, just anyone in general really, because there's a lot of people, especially older people now with smart phones that play games on their mobile, but they wouldn't say that they're gamers.
TIP - to appeal to someone means to seem attractive to them. Here Dan is saying that he wants to target people who play certain games.
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: They wouldn't say that they play video games, but then they play something on their mobile. So technically...
Richard...they are gamers
Dan: ...you know, that is like a video game. So that's what we're trying to appeal to as well, rather than just like the stereotypical gamer, you know..sat there playing FIFA, Call of Duty...things like that.
Richard: You try...Yeah. There's other markets..
Dan: Trying to appeal to ..like the older people as well.
Richard; So that's your target market then. So that's the, the group of people that you're trying to get.
Dan: Yeah, it's yeah, it's yeah. There's not one specific set of people we're trying to target overall. It's just...
Richard: ..you're trying to find a gap in the market. So a gap in the market is, um, when you don't have... a particular service for that thing at the moment. So, then you as a company can try and provide that service that is not yet being provided.
Dan: Yeah.. cause..a gaming general. Like there's such a huge, huge market with loads of... loads of uh...different avenues and different ways to do it, even within the competitive gaming and the tournament's like...A lot of companies just charge like an entry fee and then you pay to enter one tournament. You play that tournament and then you lose and then that's it. You pay another entry fee. Whereas with us, we don't have any entry fees. We either do a free tournament or we do a membership. So, they basically sign up for that and pay no entry fees rather than pay entry fees per tournament and things like that.
Richard: Yeah. Very, very interesting. Um, so where are your customers now mostly? Are they what...what countries are they from? Is it international or is it just national?
Dan: Mainly North America at the moment, so it's probably...At least 60% North America, I'd say... the East and the West coast, and then the rest would be made up of Europe... all across Europe.
Richard: How has the industry changed in the last few years, Dan? So you've been doing it just a few years, but is it, it's a fast changing industry, right?
Dan: Yeah...certainly since I started, there's been a lot more...I'm not sure if it's just the game's changing, but there's been a lot more people interested in competing for further prizes. I think people are just getting bored and fed up of just playing...
Richard: Fed up...meaning not satisfied..
Dan: Yeah...not satisfied. Tired.
Richard: Not happy.. Yeah..Tired...Mhmm
Dan: Just finding the games a bit mundane. Uh, like a..
Richard: ...mundane, again, boring...right. Mundane is boring..
Dan: A bit boring after playing them for a while.
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: Um, maybe not as challenging...as it should be, as it.. like continues to go on. Not much new content. So, especially with FIFA, we've, we've run a lot of FIFA tournaments. That's what we started doing because that's the game I knew the most.
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: So that was the one we started the most with. So.. in FIFA you've got loads of game modes and loads of in...in-game rewards that are not cash based with ultimate team. But what a lot of users told me is they, they needed something extra to actually get back from their time. So rather than playing in all these in-game competitions..
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: ..so they've got something called the weekend league where you can earn packs for players..
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: ..like in-game items. So...there's a lot of players who are doing that and it's not really rewarding for your time. Whereas if they compete in one of my tournaments…
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: Even though they might not win, they might not get the prize..It’s still kind of more rewarding for their time because they got the..
Richard: ...got the opportunity,
Dan: ...got the opportunity to reward their time more. So not just…from experience, but if they're sat down at a console for hours and hours, although they may be getting some, you know, something back from it without competing for prizes.
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: If you are paying for prizes at that time and you can earn some money from it..
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: ...then that's more rewarding for them rather than just playing for in-game items.
Richard: Yeah. So an in-game item is something you get inside the game, not in real life right? Yeah.. So now people want a real life prize.. A real life reward..
Dan: Yeah. So because we give prize money out also..there's, yeah, there's, there's nothing better than people winning prize money to actually validate that time doing it rather than some in-game items that they wouldn't necessarily class as really good stuff..really good content
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: So we get, not everyone wants to compete for the prize money because some people just want to compete just for fun. And like I said earlier, just find players to play with, like find friends online..pretty much.
Richard: The dog's licking my hand. (Laughs)
Dan: (Laughs) That's a good sign. So yeah, there's, it depends per person or per team really. Not everyone's the same.
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: And we're not the same with everyone either. Like we know that not everyone wants to play for prize money and wants to put that kind of pressure on themselves. They just want to have fun. So...we kind of cater for everyone really. They can answer free tournaments, they can enter the challenges, but then we have people who want to play for the prize money as well, which is...That's more like the higher level of, um, gamer currently, but then that's what we're trying to do with a website is kind of bring that level down and increase the accessibility to everyone.
Richard: Right..
Dan: Whereas not just, you know, the kind of the hardcore stereotypical gamer playing for prize money
Richard: Yeah..
Dan: it can be like a mother playing Clash of clans, for example, or something like that,
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: and she plays in a tournament just while she's in the bath or something
Richard: … she's in the bath (Laughs)
Richard and Dan: (laughs)
Richard: Don't play on your phone in the bath. I don't recommend it
Dan: (inaudible) Or, just chilling in the living room. Like she's not going to do it while she's like..
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: ..she's got to pick the kids up and things like that.
Richard Right. Yeah. Don't..don't take your phone in the bath. Some, some really terrible statistics.
Dan: Just in her spare time (inaudiable). The dad’s in the bath.
Richard: Okay..
Dan: Not just like sat dead at a console for hours is what I mean.
Richard: Yeah..
Dan: Like the alternative to that, like people who are not sat down for hours in front of the console.
Richard: The console being like a PlayStation, Xbox...even like PC.
Dan: ..even like PC..Yeah. Or sat in front of a PC. You’re just on your phone, you can wait. It can be sat outside waiting for your... to pick up your son from practice or something.
Richard: Right...yeah.
Dan: You got a quick tournament in
Richard: 5minutes...10 minutes. All right. I've got just one more question for you then if you wouldn't mind. So, the final question I have is, in what ways is competitive gaming different to traditional sports? And in what ways is it the same?
Dan: There's a lot of people like trying to say that e-sports is like kind of like a real sport, but...it's not for me. It never will be like...The media coverage and just the level of respect. I don't think we'll ever be there for like kind of..
Richard: ..yeah...cause it's easier. Yeah. But it's...it's not necessarily easy because like a high level gamer is a very skilled..person right?
Dan: Especially when it's with esports teams that players like there are multimillion pound contracts to play for these teams..
Richard: ..Yeah.
Dan: ...and it's definitely not easy to play for these teams. Like they're very stressful environments. Like a lot of them take, um, medication to actually make them focus and things like that.
Richard: ..Yeah
Dan: It's kind of stuff you don't really read about or see..
Richard: Performance enhancing substances for gaming..
Dan: Yeah...generally. Yeah. Like certain, uh, focusing medication and things like that. And then they have grueling schedules. They gotta be like certain places around the world.
Richard: Yeah..what do you mean by grueling? Sorry. I want to just point that one out. So grueling means... Difficult..Right? Hard work.
Dan: Yeah. So yeah. Grueling as in, yeah, like diff...Yeah.
Richard: Hard work. Difficult. Challenging.
Dan: Like I was going to say taxing but..
Richard: ...taxing. Yeah. Well, there it means the same as grueling. Taxing is something, again, that's very difficult.
Dan: It's hard. It's not easy. Cause like they could be in….They could have to play a tournament in North America then be in Europe like a week later.
Richard: Yeah...
Dan: So like all the, it's all paid for and all the team gets you there, but it's still like the travel of a..
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: ...um, like a sports star equivalent. But then with players and teams like that, it is only not even the 1% that are like that with these sports.
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: So I think with traditional sports it will always be more accessible to everyone. And they'll always be more in people's day to day stuff. You know, stuff like football, rugby...um...in America..like basketball, NFL, baseball, there will always be more like.. interest towards it because that's...yeah it is an actual sport and it's not...it's in more like the culture. Whereas, I think e-sports...gaming is in the culture. Like probably, I don't know any of the stats, but. Probably everyone's paid at least a couple of video games in their lives. Even if they’re not video gamers...
Richard: ...now, yeah. Not with the older generation, but with modern people, I think.
Dan: Yeah, because with the older generation, I think they stopped when they were like kids.
Richard: ..like kids….Yeah. My mom thinks it's a thing for kids. She finds it very strange to see adults.. playing.
Dan: So, um, but I think now, especially with smartphones, like. Especially older people as well. They like playing video games on their phones and not really realizing they're..
Richard: Yeah..
Dan: ... like gaming in that way
Dan: So I think it's, I think if you compare sports with e-sports specifically where it's kind of like a whole team thing..getting paid a salary and representing a team to do it, then yeah..I don't think it can be compared, but then compare it to like gaming. Then I think that's..you know, gaming is as part as culture, as sports..
Richard: are now...yeah..
Dan: So I think that's the...
Richard: ...the similarity.
Dan: That's, yeah, that's a similarity like culture wise and like size wise, but now there's, there will always be like the probably not even 0.2% or something of gamers who are actually paid a salary to game.
Richard: Yeah...
Dan: They got loads of streamers now making their own content, but a lot of them are not signed to like a specific team.
Richard: Yeah.
Dan: Like some of them are.
Richard: Yeah. Um, I think that is, uh, one of the big differences as well. Um, who knows, it may change in the future, but we'll, we'll have you back on if it... if it changes to update (us). All right. So cheers, Dan. Thanks so much for doing this and thanks to the dog as well.
Dan: Thank you. Take care.
Richard: Cheers.
If you notice any errors or would like me to add something to the transcription please email me at info@lovetolearnenglish.com